While I understand them, so many of them are such and eyesore and are annoying to walk by when their crowded. Always getting cut off by servers and guests; and some of them take up so much room that to walk by them it's single file. There's needs to be more regulation on them.

Why would the city allow businesses to continue outdoor dining when they can use that valuable parking space for revenue and ticketing?

The plans for permanent outdoor dining have shifted a fair amount, so I'm not sure where it stands, but there was a fee involved with it. Like a thousand dollars a year or something? not sure how much the ticket revenue on the average parking spot in NYC is.

I had a co-worker that was ticketed three times in one day in a span of 3-4hrs. Dunno what his grand total was, but it can be anywhere from $65 per ticket to $100 from what I’ve heard.

If they want use that space it needs to be properly maintained and taxed appropriately. Both things the city council needs to solve.

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The city does make a half billion a year from parking tickets.

I’d hardly call the parking free, most restaurants are on commercial strips which usually are metered blocks. With the way I see a lot of these sheds in my neighborhood I’d rather a parked car over the decrepit rat nests that they’ve become.

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Can I speak to your boss?

I agree but with the exception that all residential streets are metered except for the permit holders. One permit per home / apartment.

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Says who? Many households around me have multiple cars and I still find parking no problem. If a permit isn’t required make it so the the permit can be turned in to the city for a income or property tax rebate.

They get far more money from taxes on the meals sold in the sheds then they would on the parking space revenue

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Imo they should charge a fee and have some sort of building code. That way you get rid of the sheds that are one wind gust away from a Massive lawsuit.

I mean, would you prefer to give public space away to private businesses for free?

I don’t agree with this anti car lunacy you’re babbling on about.

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Indeed!

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Quite.

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This just in, no one wants to pay for your hunk of ugly metal.

That is highly unlikely seeing as said money is predicated on whether the business is still standing.

If they close up shop due to inflation, increased expenses on overhead, or our incoming recession then that “tax revenue from meals” evaporates.

Meanwhile parking spaces will be available for meter and ASP regulations damn near all year round with the exception of holidays and snowfall.

> During the pandemic, Toronto, like many cities, began allowing some on-street parking spaces to be used as patios by local businesses. As reported by The Globe and Mail, residents spent a total of $181 million at curbside patios within 13 weeks of summer in 2021. If those spaces had remained dedicated to parking, only $3.7 million would have been reaped during the same time period. In other words, curbside patios produced 49 times more revenue than what would have been earned from parking fees.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/11/22/torontos-curbside-patios-made-49-times-more-money-than-the-parking-they-replaced?format=amp

With a sales tax of 8.875% in nyc, the city would be earning around 5x more tax income from dining compared to street parking.

You’re really basing your economic analysis on the possibility that some restaurants might at some point in time be out of business and still have a dining shed up? What kind of wishy-washy ‘I just want the data to say what I want’ logic is that? It doesn’t matter if each and every restaurant shed is always occupied, it earns so much more income regardless.

You realize 60% of restaurants fail within their first year on average? 80% within the first 5 years.

As per businessinsider.con

This is common knowledge for anyone in the restaurant business.

Personally I don’t want businesses to fail. I hope they do well and have patrons, but this is just statistically driven data.

Sorry but “no one” in this case is a small group of terminally online people that have a weird crusade over cars.

Sure, or come up with a reasonable per-foot of frontage rate that can be paid annually. But figuring out a new tax valuation seems a bit silly when the city will see benefits from increased economic activity, foot traffic, and payroll taxes. These spots were just going to be used to warehouse cars anyway.

I can’t believe some of you enjoy eating in rat shit sheds. Just because the employee swept away the rat shit doesn’t mean you’re not sitting in a bacteria ball pit. It’s ironic really.

Sidewalk seating is enough. If a restaurant can’t maintain without a shed they probably aren’t a one that will last anyways.

Increasing the amount of space they have to sell food increases the likelihood they'll stay open, generating more tax money. And if they close the city should require them to take down the outdoor dining, freeing up that precious parking you're so concerned about.

You don’t have to convince me.

Not my problem.

You have to convince the city :3

Are you like not familiar with the concept of eating outside or something? How sterile do you think picnic tables are?

I don’t eat outside at places but if it’s an option I’d prefer just sidewalk seating for those who want that option

I think regulation is what business owners actually want. Regulation is clarity. With clear requirements they can invest in making the sheds good without taking a risk.

The most parklet heavy areas are dining-heavy areas where sidewalk dining isn't an option. The sidewalks on mulberry for instance are already too small.

They really should remove the parking (or close the street entirely) and extend the sidewalk. Piecemeal parking space removal is a compromise.

You do realize car owners are in the minority in this city right? Literally everyone is tired of the noise, light, constant honking, nearly dying to some lunatic with no insurance who has to cut 2 seconds off their commute.

Pretty logical to want that blight out of the city if you ask me.

I'd prefer to charge both them and cars for parking actually, but if we're giving the space away for free to individuals and businesses for cars that cause congestion and pollution then we can let a business use the same space to serve meals to locals...

You make it sound like the minority is tiny while actually 45% of all NYC households in NYC own a car.. Who is this “everyone” you’re talking about?

If that is a metered spot/s then they should at least cover that lost revenue. The taxes they pay would increase if they serve more customers, unfortunately many of these sheds remain empty.

Yeah but when I go for a picnic, I bring a plastic table cloth and disinfect. Can't do that at a restaurant.

Last time I checked, 55 was bigger than 45, Just saying

55% is not “everyone”.

According to this more recent poll it's actually around 47% now:

https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/NYC0522-Crosstabs-Final.pdf

Page 7. Getting closer and closer to 50/50 split

Pretty much is. Besides, if you want to drive your big poluting SUV there is a whole entire rest of the country you are more than welcome to do it in.

Nah, I’ll stay right here because this is my home. You can go back upstate.

Nah, I think Ill stay here and respect pedestrians and my fellow new yorkers by not acting like a self entitled lunatic.

Lol, what a clown.

Yeah, god forbid people want a safer, healthier, quieter, more prosperous community.

Ticketing? What city are you living in? The NYPD doesn't give out tickets anymore.