I’m not disputing that a homeowner can change his own panel. They and/ or an Electrical Contractor can’t touch the meter to disconnect said panel. Stay in your lane and go sweep the floor or something

Well I did it exactly as described buddy. Everything I did was through the ESA. I have all permits. I have no reason to lie.

And you don't need to be a licensed electrician to rewire your own home in Ontario. And you don't need to be a licensed electrician to add or change a panel.

Or did you not know that.

"If you’re doing your own electrical work: If you are doing your own electrical work, you will need to file the notification. To confirm requirements and file a notification, call 1-877-ESA-SAFE (372-7233). Fees vary according to the type of work you’re doing."

Link:

https://esasafe.com/compliance/what-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=If%20you%27re%20doing%20your,of%20work%20you%27re%20doing.

And here:

https://esasafe.com/compliance/diy-electrical-work/

And yes, I own a copy of the electrical code.

You are speaking from your limited experiences and are not even a licensed contractor. I strongly recommend you contact ESA and Toronto hydro and get educated before spreading misinformation. Pulling a meter even as a licensed electrical contractor will expose you to fines and potential electric shock. It’s the law governed by the Ontario Electrical Safety Code. Source: Me. An Electrical Contractor and NCSO

I wish I had the money and knowledge at 27 I do now at 40….but thanks for your replies and information man, I appreciate you taking the time.

Ok. You’re attempting to analyze carpentry when you have no experience in carpentry. Forget all the online “resources”.

Forget messing with the substructure which is part of what holds the shed upright.

Layer 5/8” exterior grade ply at right angles to the existing ply. Use construction adhesive applied in lines approx every 12”, drive deck screws onto the substrate and 2x4s. Paint with garage floor paint.

Stop watching DIY youtube by people who know nothing.

I can't really speak for the ESA.

I suspect that if the inspector wanted to get all involved, he could look at the wires, check out the date stamp. He might ask you who installed these wires. I don't know.

Or he could just do the job he was asked to do, which was inspect your panel and go.

I'm just not sure how you phrase this with ESA. Do you call them up and say, "I have an existing panel in my house and would like to have it inspected"

To which they respond, "why wasn't it inspected when it was installed?"

To which you respond....I dunno what.

You could tell them the truth (The truth will set you free.)

You could lie and say it was there when you moved in and you want to make sure it's ok.

As far as inspecting the wiring goes, if the walls are closed and you don't have photos of the wiring when it was built, the ESA really can't do their job.

Allot of people have a basement built by a neighbourhood contractor who will wire it without permits. That's not that unusual. Some guys know what they are doing and others are hacks.

You're not disconnecting a service, you're pulling a meter. Panels get changed every day in Toronto multiple times.

And as far as a source goes, I've done it twice in Toronto, both times called Toronto Hydro, both times been told to cut the tag and then have panel inspected by ESA.

I have no reason to lie to you.

The first time I changed a panel, I was surprised myself. Last meter I pulled was 7 years ago, things may have changed, I don't know. Also, in one occasion, I had my panel relocated. It has to be 3 feet from the front of the house I was told. I also wanted to replace the old No. 6 60 amp wires with 100 amp wires. I hired an electrician to do that. He changed from the top of the mast head to the panel, including a new panel. (I then rewired the whole house). The process with the temporary connections at the top of the mast head was how that was handled.

Suggest you call Toronto Hydro.

Source of this? Only the utility can disconnect and reconnect power to a residence in Ontario

Because he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s doing?

1 billion times this!

And if there is? Say, an entire basement refinished and wired into that new panel? That world of hurt, is that ripping out drywall to inspect wiring or are we talking fines and legal penalties? Or more like, “hey you’re not insure for electrical fires now dummy”.

For the purposes of what you are doing, the tire pressure & contact patch size is almost irrelevant. You’re talking about a difference of a few square inches at best. Weight is far more important.

Not OSB. They are not the same thing.

Hm, that's a decent idea. 3/4 T&G plywood cut into 2 ft x 4 ft strips and nailed down with the joints over the joists would be quite easy to install.

Any thoughts on OSB vs real plywood?

>WTAF would tire pressure have to do with anything?

The contact patch of a tire is the weight of the vehicle divided four divided by the tire pressure. So if you're calculating a maximum loading it's kind of important. I don't have any doubts of the floor's ability to support the weight of the car if it was evenly distributed over 280 sq ft. But it's not, it's distributed over four 0.2 sq ft contact patches each totaling about 1,000 lbs. So obviously the worst case scenario is the weight of the tire right in the middle ~2" of a 14.5" unsupported span of 5/8" plywood causing the plywood to crack. The compressive strength of wood is on the order of 1 ksi so I'm not worried about the 4x4 skids or even about the joist compression (since each 2x4 joist has about 5 sq in of contact to the skid). I have struggled to find good resources on plywood strength over short distances with very concentrated loads so that's why I'm asking for advice.

Would you rather someone drop 100 lbs bag of feathers or 100 lb of water on your head? I know which I'd prefer.

As far as I know (Alberta Electrician, Edmonton Area) to safely change a panel, you need to de-energize the incoming feeders. To de-energize incoming feeders, you need power utility company to pull your meter. To get the power company to do this, you need an electrical work permit from the city. Almost all residential electrical work and permit pulling can be done by the home owner EXCEPT when working on the service. That requires a master electrician. After the work is complete, you call for inspection. Once inspection has passed, power utility company comes and reinstalls the meter.

The way Ive done it, we plan it. Get a permit. Get all the material. Epcor pulls meter at 8am, swap the panel, inspection, meter reinstalled by 4pm.

Long story short. You should hire an electrcial contractor to perform a panel swap.

Outstanding. I don't understand the downvotes. This method isn't for everyone, but I've done it myself before. Having said that, I think I'll have the meter pulled and do it myself.

Loadspreading would give you peace of mind without structurally altering the floor or ripping it up. Rather than 2 x 12, you might look at ripping some sheets of ply to 24" strips and putting them down. Since you want to spread the load wider, going up from 12" would give better results. 12" would probably work, but spreading is spreading and wider is better.

I work for the power company (as a desk jockey) and every year we have at least 2 or 3 of our experienced field workers killed either from mistakes or unforeseeable circumstances.

Feel free to put breakers in your panel if you want, but when it comes to the whole panel, let a professional do it. There is a reason you need 8000 on the job hours before you can become certified master electrician.

An experienced electrician was blinded at my work when he accidentally stuck a screwdriver in a live 480V panel so for a DIY'er to mess with live inputs is crazy IMO.

Sees like the drug lab guys do it though, bypassing the meter but perhaps they are already living in the edge.

WTAF would tire pressure have to do with anything? Weight is weight, gravity is gravity, do you think a 100lb bag of feathers differs from 100lb drum of water? 🤣

Totally incorrect.

Even if you were to hire a contractor to relocate your service, supply and install a new masthead, panel etc. Your contractor installs everything makes a temporary connection at the mast head, then THE ESA inspects everything.

Once that's done, Toronto hydro will come, make the permanent connections at the mast head and apply the tag to the meter. That can be days or even weeks later and you need to be home when they do it.

Hence the temporary connection.

There's no buckling or sag, but I think my car is a fair bit heavier (and higher tire pressure) than what the previous owner was parking.

The Advantech seems pretty reasonable for 9 sheets, and certainly easier to put down a second floor than to try to cut up the old one.

I might go at it with a pry bar and see how easy the current floor panels come up. I like the idea of prying them up for the 4x4 sleepers on top of the skids but if they're a pain in the ass to get up then IDK, maybe it's better to cut out slots with a circular saw set to 5/8" depth. Or perhaps only add sleepers in the specific joist bays where the car would be parked, not all of them?

Agreed, if there is no sagging I would go this route.

if there is sagging then I would just add another 4x4 skid mid point between the skids and then add the 3/4 advantech.

But I am not a professional builder!

Does the floor show any signs of buckling or sag where the previous owner parked?

If not, I would probably just double down on the sheathing with a layer of 3/4” advantech flooring.

If it does, more sleepers and blocking between the 2x4s is probably the practical way to go.

It sounds as if nothing serious would happen in the event of a failure.